Why Great Sales Starts With Understanding the Problem, Not Pushing the Sale- Cecilia Perez

speaker-1: It's actually not difficult at all. I have a need, and

speaker-0: Mm-hmm.

speaker-1: this other person has a solution for my need, it's not hard. Just that

speaker-0: Mm-hmm.

speaker-1: ego comes in the way of everything.

speaker-0: Hey everyone, my name is Carmen Devat and I will be hosting today's episode of Behind the Founders. Joining me here today is the lovely Cecilia Arvalez Perez. Cecilia, welcome. Can you introduce yourself?

speaker-1: Hi, Carmen. Thank you so much. Hi, everyone. My name is Cecilia Arvelaez, and I'm actually from Colombia, living in Mexico City for around 14 years now. I'm a person or a woman that's thrilled to live here. I've been going around the world a little bit. I'm running a US register company with clients across Latin America and Brazil. maybe and a little bit of US here in in Mexico City. So I'm very happy and glad to be with all of you right now. thank you for inviting me, Carmen.

speaker-0: Yeah, and thank you so much for joining me as well. I'm definitely very excited for us to get us started, to dive into a little bit about who you are and of course what you have been working on as well at Pulse Level Up. So yeah, Cecilia, just get us started. tell us a little bit about your life before you founded Pulse Level Up.

speaker-1: Sure, Carmen. Well, it's a very crazy kind of story. I mean, I was a this very shy girl from Barranquilla, Colombia, and I studied international relations in the in Unionorte of an Universidad del Norte for who whoever doesn't know what that is. And then I started getting to this itch to go out of the of of Colombia and get to to the world and get to know it. So I lived in Brazil for a while and then and then I moved to England to I to and then there I did my master's in marketing science in Leicester University. I lived in Leicester for a while. Then I moved to London and I worked in London for a while. And then I was offered a crazy opportunity to live and run expansion for a company in China. So I left and lived in China for a couple of years and then I was transferred to Mexico with that company because I did the whole process of expansion for them. since then I've been living here and I've been working in different companies in in the country. One of the biggest experiences I'd had I had was with WeWork. I was the employee number 18th in all Latin America and it was a crazy, crazy experience. It was really rewarding and fulfilling. And one of the things that I learned there was that I wanted to be a trainer, a guide for people in sales my whole life. That's what I learned. There is one of the biggest ex takeouts of of besides any other many other things that I lived there, but it was one of the biggest takeouts of of that experience. And it was great.

speaker-0: Thank you so much for this really interesting introduction. obviously you definitely have like this really global mindset. So coming from Barrankia and of course going outside, seeing what the world is like, what has that taught you so far?

speaker-1: Well, I think one of the biggest things is the resiliency. and the actual ability to be able to to to hear properly other people and to actually listen, right? Because sometimes we're so set up in our ways that actually listening to someone else with a different perspective or a different point of view is sometimes something that's hard for people. I mean it's it was hard for me for sure. One of the biggest things that I learned in China is that common sense is not so common, right? Even that's something that we live through in our lives here today with people of our own countries and cultures and backgrounds. it's never that common and even less when you go to a country to different types of countries and work with with a country like that, it's way less than than than than what you think, right? So listening to people and really, really, really listening to what they have to say, it's one of the biggest learnings that I have had throughout my my whole life, I think.

speaker-0: Absolutely for sure. And I'm pretty sure that this skill of listening, understanding different points of views can translate so well, especially when you help other people be a guide and coach people in the world of sales. It's not an easy job, but at the same time, it's really important component in business as well. what I'd love to know is what do you think are the typical challenges when it comes to diving into the business of sales in general.

speaker-1: Well that's a very deep question, Karen.

speaker-0: Let's dive straight into it.

speaker-1: Because it it has for me it has different perspectives, right? let's touch on the perspective of the people, which is my favorite one. People in the sense of the salesperson, right? So the person that's driving the sales and it's actually talking to the client and it's actually actually understanding the market for whatever company you're talking about or whatever business you're talking about. Doesn't matter what the type of industry they're working with, or it doesn't matter what the founder of the company thinks or X, and Z. I think one of the most difficult things is bring the self-awareness of each in each one of us. Not everybody is aware that the importance that it has. Because at the moment that you are self-aware and you are able to grow. And we are all the time changing. We're st studying all the time. We're all the time growing. We're all the time we are under construction, if I would say that would be the correct word expression for it. And not everybody knows that. And not everybody is aware of that. And so when you're self-aware, you know where you need to work, right? So I could communicate better or I could listen more. Or I could be more open to suggestions, or I could be more open to feedback, or I could be able, or I could be a person that delivers a better pitch of my product, for example. And not everybody has that self-awareness. And I think that's one of the most difficult things to find. But when when your team has it, and for people, your followers that are founders and people that have their own sales teams. When you have sales teams that have that, that's priceless. Because you go from there and the limit is the the everything that's on your or is not on your imagination, I would say.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, definitely for sure. In a way, self-awareness is it's data, it's information because once you have that information, the numbers, the analytics, whether it's like the conversions, the lead and the conversions, you're able to kind of focus on what needs to be optimized as well. You know, what are the different strategies that you need to improve or implement and everything like that, whether it's like the budget, whether it's the different different types of campaigns you use for sales or something like that. Yes. Yeah, it's it's definitely a lot of it's a lot of data that's really gonna point you the right direction as well. so what I'd love to know is so how did you end up building and starting tell the listeners a little bit about what got you started.

speaker-1: That's a great story because it's kind of romantic, if you can call it like

speaker-0: That's

speaker-1: my business partner and I, her name is Carolina, and we always talk about we we always tell this story and it sounds like like in a movie, like it's just got out of a movie or like a very fun book. we were working together, both of us. In our last company where we were employees, both of us, I was the VP of sales for the company. It's an ed tech company in Latin America. And she was the head of sales enablement, but we call it sales excellency at that time. And we one day we were for I don't know, chances of life. It was super random. We bumped into each other in a city. A beach near City in Mexico. And we were drinking and having fun with friends and stuff, and her husband. And she said, we should build a company that does this, what we do with other companies because what we're doing right now with other companies because it's something that everybody needs. And nobody really knows that the impact that you can bring to your teams and to your actual revenue. And your system of revenue, it can create a complete different story. And I'm like, I think you're crazy, you're drunk, or whatever. And

speaker-0: B.

speaker-1: we left, we thought about it, and then a couple of months later, somebody that I've worked with before came to me and asked if I did something related to improving sales team's skills and and and performance metrics. Because they were in need of that. So I talked to her and we started pivoting ideas and talking about it and and and we and the idea came up right there. So let's say that it was around March of that year. So we're gonna be now around four years. since the company, the idea of the company was born.

speaker-0: Yeah. Okay, great. And yeah, I think that's definitely like a very, like you said, a very memorable movie, love story where, you know, what ended up being a sort of a casual conversation turned into something very impactful as well, where you're helping other companies build, improve the sales system as well. So could you elaborate with the listeners out there a little bit deeper? What kind of companies have you worked with? Any specific industry? The location obviously I think you mentioned a little bit, you know, focuses on Latin America, but perhaps to the listeners, audience out there who are not familiar with pulse level up or the world of sales. Yeah.

speaker-1: For sure. first of all, I think I need to clarify or or state what we do, right? So polls, we say that we're a fractional revenue enablement firm. And what we do is that we actually embed into the client's team as their enablement enablement function, right? So it's a well-known enab function, right? For companies in the US or in Europe, but in Latin America is not that well known.

speaker-0: Okay, it's very new.

speaker-1: It's very new. I mean, if if you're listening to this and you are in a global company in Latin America, probably you know about it, right? But if it's if it is a more local firm or a more local company, you've never heard of it before. That type of function within a company. And what we do is that for those people that have never heard of enablement before, is we connect the strategy that The directors or board of directors have with the actual execution of the day-to-day basis. So sometimes as startups or traditional companies, they sit down and they say, Hey, if our goal was to arrive to this XY amount of money, we're not getting there. The idea was to get there by an average ticket of this and selling to this type of clients. My ICP is this one. In reality, that's not what's happening. We're selling lower tickets and to an customer that's asking for a lot of changes in my product or my service, how how come? Right? So there is a gap there that we usually bridge and we help them to understand why isn't it why isn't it talking, right? Why is the the gap there and how to bridge it? And we work for a while with those companies, let's say. six, nine, twelve months or a little bit longer than that if needed, to help them be that arm of enablement and help bridge that specific situation between the strategy and the actual execution of the day-to-day. And the bridge can be composed by six different things. We have three engines that help help us get there, which is the the team. So maybe trainings, workshops, coaching. Developing these these different skills that the team doesn't have. And then the second one would be a process and tools. So maybe the sales process is broken and they don't know how to send or or the structure of a proposal is not standardized for everybody. So we we we help with the building of that and the actual fixing of that. And the third one is the CRM or technology, the suite. Technological suite that the sales team uses with data, the data that it entails and the AI that helps that the sales team does that a little bit har faster and and and and structured. And all of that, having into consideration, Carmen, that and for people that are listening to us, that the ones that are driving everything are the people, are the sales teams, right? So the individual contributors. And the sales managers that are on the day-to-day. So we actually need to build these rituals that we call to develop these habits. So, how do I do my day-to-day? Everything that I do is consistent. As I wake up in the morning and I brush my teeth, I need to start my day my day today revising my pipeline, for example.

speaker-0: yeah.

speaker-1: Those rituals look like and become a behavior change and support the actual functionality of the sales system. So that's what we do in a sum up of what we do.

speaker-0: Okay. Yeah. No, I definitely think consistency here is a really prominent, prominent role to play as well, especially when it comes to the follow-ups. we, you know, at Cherry Assistant, we also do something similar. You know, we also have our own CRM tool. And a lot of the times, what I've noticed is also like, you know, working with clients and also working and speaking with other people is that sometimes even It's not so much about not getting enough leads as oftentimes a lot of those leads are forgotten leads because we need to have this follow-up process, you know, following through, checking in just to be able to nurture or maintain those long-term client relationships as well. I'd be curious to know, like from your experiences working with different companies, what would you say have been, I would say, like the biggest challenges that they face when it comes to optimization in the sales space.

speaker-1: I think the hardest thing carbon is aversion to change. But they really don't want to do anything differently. I mean we usually it's not there's there has not been so far an opportunity or or a situation in which it didn't work. It has worked for us with the different clients that I didn't answer that question. I'm gonna answer it in in a minute. Yeah it has worked with all of them at up to some point. up until the team allows us to change things right so if we if it is a a very averse adverse or averse person or team to change the things that they were doing how they were doing it before it's harder for us to be able to impact but usually there is a why right so one of the premises that we use on the way we work with our clients and the way that the methodology of our work works is that we based everything on androgy. I don't know if you know what that is.

speaker-0: But maybe for the listeners there they would love to probably understand the terminology.

speaker-1: Sure. So the the kids. So when we're kids and the way we learn, it's called pedagogy, right? So we teach the children in in schools, we learn somehow, right? So that's pedagogy. And dragogy is how the adults learn, right? So the adult usually to change some behavior, we need the why, what what's in it for me, right? So why do I need to change things? If this is working for me and I'm selling, I'm actually achieving my goal, why should I change the way I'm doing things? I don't care about the company. I don't care about the actual process and making it a little bit more scalable and whatever. I don't care about that. I'm I'm arriving to my goals. What should I change? Right. So when we find that specific trigger or driver that's gonna make you say yes. That's when change actually happens in in everybody's minds. So that's part of our job being in into the companies is really understanding who we have in front of us. Who is this person that I have in front of me? So we usually do not work with huge companies. So let's say that let's say that I don't want to name any names right now and I'm not gonna talk about any like logo. Yeah.

speaker-0: Course for confidential.

speaker-1: Exactly. But let's say that I'm working with I don't know, some huge enterprise worldwide calling us to change everything and change all of the sales teams all at once, that's not gonna happen because we need to do it little by little, right? So we usually say yes, yeah, those type of challenges, but we work with them little by little and try to establish the wife what's in it for me along the way and that's why we include a little bit of coaching in our services with the clients. Yeah and just just to to answer your question before in terms of what's the type of clients that we've worked with. I'm not gonna name any any names but I'm gonna say we've worked with co works, we've worked with SaaS companies. So B2B is everything is mostly B2B. But let's say that technology has been one of our biggest type of clients around what we've done in these past four years. softwares in terms of maybe prop techs, log techs, ed techs, I'm probably I'm skipping any other over there or fintechs as well. work with companies that sell products that's a little bit more retail, but we talk about we usually touch base on the biggest part of what moves your needle in terms of growth, right? So usually for those retail type of companies, the the distributors or the channels that they use in terms of distribution for their products. are the ones that that we touch base on a little bit more. consulting companies, taxing companies or taxes, a little bit of education as well. that's more or less. Yeah. Okay.

speaker-0: They're all based in Latin America or where are they based?

speaker-1: We've had clients in the US, New York and Miami and yeah, New York and Miami, most of them. And then we've had based out of Mexico and Brazil. Okay. They have operations around Latin America. Let's say that the companies have the main office in Mexico and then They have offices in Colombia, Peru, Argentina, Chile, or vice versa. They are located at the main co the main house or the headquarters is in Brazil. And then they have offices. But

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: yeah. Okay.

speaker-0: Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, I'd be curious to know because obviously you did mention just earlier on in our earlier conversations how when it comes to sales, it is very well known, you know, in the US and Europe, but not so much in Latin America. I'd just be curious to know how do you think they approach or handle the sales process differently from a cultural perspective, especially since you've had exposure to different cultures, you've traveled and lived in different places.

speaker-1: No, I don't. I think that everybody wants to think this is a very unpopular opinion. Everybody wants to think that they're unique, and we are, yes, we are. Of course we are and our businesses are. But in terms of sales, the nitty gritty of the process would change, but the gener the general idea of sale is pretty much the same in the sense that I need to understand my client, right? It doesn't matter what I sell. Unless I'm selling, yeah, it doesn't matter where I sell. I usually I need to understand what's the need of my client and my client's journey to purchase. So I can touch base in every step of the way that my client is thinking about that. So let's say that I'm working or we're working with a with a real estate company or we're working with a software company, both of them, even though they're selling completely different things. They both need to understand their clients. So the basic is that. Yeah. Understand your client, your customer, who you have in front of you. Paint your customer journey so that you can understand the actual steps that you need to take for them to notice you and say, I want it with you.

speaker-0: Mm-hmm. That's yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: I was just thinking so, because for me, before coming in to Cherry Assistant, I personally don't have any familiarity, background, experience when it comes to sales. So obviously I have some different conceptions or ideas what sales is about. And for me, and I think this is something that I would love to hear from you in terms of the most common. Misconceptions or myths when it comes to what sales actually is, because for me, when I think about it, I literally think of somebody is calling me on the phone, trying to get me to sell, purchase insurance packages. And then I I I picture this person just constantly calling, calling, following up, being very, very pushy. That it just pushes people away further, even more. so I'd be just be curious to know whether you've had any common misconceptions similar to that, and whether there's any misconceptions or myths to break when it comes to actually what actually how sale operates as well.

speaker-1: I I love this question, Carmen, and I would revert it back to you and let's do an exercise. Mm-hmm. When I say sales, what is the first thing that comes to mind? Just tell me one word.

speaker-0: Like calling.

speaker-1: And an and a feeling, a sensation. What what will be the sense or the feeling for you?

speaker-0: Honestly bushy stress. That's what I would think of. Very, very aggressive.

speaker-1: Aggressive. Exactly. Yes. I've heard things like boring. Or I've heard the words like usually when we train teams in general, we ask them these type of questions. Okay. So when I say these, what is the the the first thing that comes to mind? We have a very wonderful training in negotiation. It's one of the is one of my favorite ones and and and I love it. And I try not to get away from the actual field and actually training the teams. Yeah. And that's something that my business partner and I have talked about a lot. And that's something that we try to remain it that way. So it remains that way. And and we ask them the teams. So when when when I say negotiation, what is the first thing that comes to mind? And usually when we ask this question in terms of sales or negotiation. The qu the the word that comes to mind for many people that have been doing sales for a while

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: is the word difficult.

speaker-0: yeah, I can imagine. Right? Yeah, that as well for both ends as well. Yeah.

speaker-1: But it is not. It's actually not difficult at all. If you look at it from the perspective of I have a need, and

speaker-0: Mm-hmm.

speaker-1: this other person has a solution for my need, it's not hard. Just that

speaker-0: Mm-hmm.

speaker-1: ego comes in the way of everything. Because we're selling, we're human beings and we're talking to each other. So sometimes there are other things happening around. the buyer or the seller's mind and the sense of, I wanna get the best deal out of this, or I want the best discount for so I can show my boss that I did the best deal out of this. And that's ego talking and a lot of other things. But the need of

speaker-0: For me.

speaker-1: that person is not the price. And

speaker-0: Mm-hmm.

speaker-1: then the seller is probably thinking about their goals. And there can be a little bit of desperation. In terms of tell me what you want and I'll give it to you. And then the the buyer says, I need this discount and getting the best out of the best deal out of this and this best discount out of this. And the seller is like very desperate into I need to achieve my goal.

speaker-0: yeah, there's like a lot of pressure behind that as well. I can imagine a lot of people, let's say, selling home services or all of these different accessories. They're probably because some of them are pressure because they're working on a commission based job. So they're pressured to achieve those KPIs, those targets, which is also like the stress that comes with it as well.

speaker-1: Yes, and those are actual additions or extras that come into the conversation of sales because that's not what it is. Then the core situation, if you remove all of that, because there is a way of removing all of that, that's the way that's what we teach them to do.

speaker-0: Mm-hmm.

speaker-1: What is your client's not even needs? What is the pain of the client?

speaker-0: Pain point.

speaker-1: Yeah, what is the actual pain? So they need this service. Yeah, but why What for? What is it gonna solve? And when you solve that for them, what is the impact in their business when you solve this problem for them? Right? So all of that becomes part of the conversation, and that's the core conversation. The problem is that that wasn't the core conversation in the example I gave you before. Example

speaker-0: Victor.

speaker-1: was or the conversation was on regards of pricing and discount and And goals and KPIs and stuff. And that's usually what's r roaming around our heads. And that's not that's not that's not what it is. This is not about

speaker-0: It's like shifting away from the purpose as well and the focus.

speaker-1: Sales is about solving the need of my client, solving the pain of my client. Do I can I solve it? If I can solve it, probably the rest can be figured out.

speaker-0: Right. Yeah, definitely for sure. Especially it's all really about getting to the deep to the root cause. And I I love the fact that you really talked a lot about answering the question why, you know, because that's really where it just points you in the right path in the right direction. Yep,

speaker-1: Yeah. Correct.

speaker-0: definitely for sure. so let's talk a little bit about AI. So you did mention a little bit earlier on, you know, there's a lot. of development when it comes to using AI to automate processes. How have you used AI to integrate the different parts of your business?

speaker-1: Well, I can I can answer these Carmen with both with two perspectives. The first one is internally for us. So in within our operation, we've automized a few things or a couple or several things that we used to do by ourselves. And the AI has helped us to actually make things a little bit faster and easier in the sense that it has the quality that we're looking for still. And still has the the the agility that we're looking for to attend our clients. let's say internal processes, internal communications, build-out of things that need to be done for the clients. And and we talk about it when we when we talk to our clients, we say we try to be and we are and and we use AI. So it's not something we're hiding right so we've heard and we've seen a lot of people around now that's become a huge thing this year or in this couple of years people or or the or actual managers in sales saying well but you can see that that was made by the by AI but it was revised and it was structured and it was catered to your business and to your situation and yes of course if the tools are there why are not we taking advantage of those tools, right? yeah, and then for the clients, it varies, right? Because it depends on the stage of the client. If the client is in a very early stage where they don't know and they don't even have mapped out a specific structure for their sales processes, then we're not gonna do AI right away because we have to set the foundation for it first. And then let's let's say that we're in a very more in a little bit more advanced structured process. We've come up to up to the point where we help them automize as much as possible the first part of the sales process, which is the prospection. So we help them build the actual bots that help them do prospecting, call call, called processing of sales for them. And we've come up until that point. So it depends on the stage where they're at and the needs the actually the set the process has itself.

speaker-0: Yeah, definitely for sure. And would you say there are still parts of pulse level up where you are doing things very manually or it's taking up a lot of your time?

speaker-1: Well, there is always something that's never gonna change and it's never gonna be replaced by AI in this of what we do is and it is the personal touch base with with our clients in the sense of the training itself, the coaching itself. I mean, we've done and we know that there are a lot of options in terms of you can have an AI agent that helps you coach you in sales, but The person that does that and and and gets the help with any let's say it's well set up and everything is working properly, the person that's on the other side needs to have that specific drive as a person to be better, do better. And that's not even that's not even necessarily the the the opportunity or the case for many of the salespeople around the world because you need to sell. So finding the time to actually work on yourself. It's not easy, right? It's not something that everybody does in every moment of their lives and it's easy to find. So that's where we came. That's where where we came, right? Where we come because the idea is that we help you get there and we give you feedback and we give you the actual structure and why do you need to do things differently. And that personal training and that personal structuring is not something that AI is gonna replace anytime soon.

speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely not. And obviously, like if I'm just trying to put myself in the shoes of one of your clients, like obviously I wouldn't want to be coached by like an AI or a robot. I would rather have like this personal human element, you know, giving me the feedback, having this empathetic connection as well. And that is obviously something that you know, AI can never replace as well. So I'd be curious to know, at pulse level up, I know I'm highly aware that you know it's But you and your co-founder, Carolina. How do you have are there are there like more coaches in the team or how many what does your team set up look like? Yeah.

speaker-1: We're around right now, we are around 10 people. Okay. And it depends on the actual structure, right? But we have revenue architects that are the people that that are are the people in charge of the projects. So let's say it's a PMO or let's call it yeah, the director of the project. And this person or these people are the one in the ones in charge of actually connecting the dots and saying.

speaker-0: Okay.

speaker-1: Hey, this is so the first thing we do in the first month is measure the actual pulse, commercial polls of the team,

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: and then structure from out of there. So we struck it's very fast and it's very structured. The method methodology is there, the software is there. We have a lot of like actual infrastructure to do that very fast. And it can be three weeks or two weeks or one week, depends on the size of the team. Right. And the actual process for sales for them. And then that person is the one in charge of saying, Hey, I found this. I think we should start over here. And the priorization comes up in the ch the sense that what is the biggest impact for the client if

speaker-0: Okay.

speaker-1: we change this and we do this. So that's the way we structure the process. And then we have the coaches. Okay. We have they they are specialized in different types of tasks let's say that we're coaching or training the sales the sdrs v drs which is the early stage of the of the funnel yeah yeah we have sp people specialize in that and let's say that we have other clients that has a lot of we need to train the sales team but they sell to the enterprise companies it's a very structured and difficult sales process and it's very It was more complex sales process. So we have people, our team, we have people specialized in that type of sale. Sale as well. Sales. Absolutely.

speaker-0: Mm-hmm. And like account manager and customer success.

speaker-1: And so we have the coaches specialized in that and trainers specialized in that. A trainer can be a coach as well, but it depends on the training that they come with or that we've trained them on as well. Then

speaker-0: Okay. All right.

speaker-1: we have the content developers, and then we have, even though we have the AI and people that are very specialized in AI that are gonna hear us and say, but you have AI. Yeah, but still you need the actual. final touches and structure is toward the client itself, right? And we have the coordinator that she works with to structure the whole process and communications for clients and communications for trainings and stuff like that. And that's it as a team. and no well sorry the the specialist in technologies we have a couple of specialists in technology And the CRM and AI and the whole thing that they put together this CRM. So let's say that the client says, Hey, I don't have anything. I'm I'm just working with an Excel file. I need a CRM. We s research on the market and we're always like try to be on top of the market. What is out there that

speaker-0: Trends. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, it seems like you really have a quite a a solid setup as well, you know, in terms of like everyone's function, and also the role that they are serving as well. Are they all where are they all based actually?

speaker-1: Well.

speaker-0: Are they remotely? Are they

speaker-1: They're remote. I mean most of the trainers and coaches are in Brazil, in Mexico, and we have one and in Colombia, which are the like the biggest setup operations for us. But the rest of the team, I mean, we have one person living in London, one person living in in Medellín, in Colombia, one person living in in Peru, another one in yeah, it in in Mexico City or More abroad, like outside of Mexico City, but they work with us, so it depends. It's very

speaker-0: Remote. It is very remote. And how did you recruit or find these people?

speaker-1: Will that's a great question, Carla. It has been people usually most of them have been people that have worked with us before.

speaker-0: Okay, so inform of okay.

speaker-1: For former companies or people that have been referred by that

speaker-0: Okay.

speaker-1: know what we do and they think it can be a good addition for the team. Or on the c one couple of cases that people prospected me in call like called prospected on LinkedIn and looked for me and said, Hey, I wanna work with you guys. You guys seem like you're doing a great job and and looked for us and then we like double check backgrounds and stuff like that, but it Yeah, it's been like that's that's what what it has been.

speaker-0: Okay, yeah. I mean, it makes sense to obviously work with people that you really trust, right? You know, people whether you've known before or through word of mouth, because that's really where the trust element increases. Like you can have somebody who's has like the the perfect resume or the perfect skill set. If you don't know that person, that obviously would hinder the collaboration and everything like that. but yeah, that's definitely very interesting to be able to find out how you connect with all these people. do you have like a formalized process in terms of hiring or just have

speaker-1: yeah. So we have conversations.

speaker-0: Perfect.

speaker-1: We have conversations with them in terms of like what are you looking for, what your life looks like, what what do you see yourself? Like the cop the the general general questions you usually do when you're hiring someone, right? Of course. And then if we are on the verge of actually bringing someone for a project, we usually do some business cases because it shows you. who the people are or the person is on under pressure and with like how they handle with feedback and like and this is part of growing right so for us yeah

speaker-0: Big growth mindset.

speaker-1: yes yes and and growing the company as well so the the the process the the the actual operation of the company depended on us on on my business partner and I until last year or yeah, last half of last year. And then there we decided, yeah, we're ready to scale. We know what we're doing. It's working and we're generating an actual impact for clients. We're ready to scale. So we decided to actually bring officially people to the team and then say, Hey, this is the way we operate. And that's where it's great because people come with their own things. And they're all mindsets that are completely different to ours, even though we've worked with them before, they have a different perspective in processes on the way of doing things. So it's great to bring them along and say, Hey, let's build it together. So our way is not the only way. So it's

speaker-0: Yeah, of course. Yeah. And also like it's a chance to be able to get more creative, have people generate different ideas and try and experiment different approaches. And that way it's like you never know how how your business will flourish as well if it weren't for implementing or trying all of these different ideas or everything like that.

speaker-1: Definitely. Definitely.

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, definitely for sure. So just looking at your team in general, like would you say there are currently some things where you're like, okay, I'm still spending a lot of time. I would love if there was another person that could come and support me. are you at that stage where you're just like, Okay, if I could find that person to help me take over X, Y, or Z, what would it actually be?

speaker-1: No, actually no. It's a it's a good question, Carmen. I I would say that I don't have that thought that that feeling right now or that thought in my mind right now. What we where we're at is that we're fine tuning what we have.

speaker-0: Mm.

speaker-1: And we're finding our rhythm together. Okay. So it's been great. It's wonderful actually because it's it's uncomfortable. It's very uncomfortable. But I love being uncomfortable.

speaker-0: People need to get comfortable to be the uncomfortable.

speaker-1: Yeah. And it's uncomfortable, but it's been very, very rewarding in the sense that w you grow, right? When you get uncomfortable, you grow a lot and and and you make your team grow and the company grows by consequence of that, right? Yeah. So I don't I don't I I wouldn't say that I'm on that place right now. We're not. Not even not even Kara and I are. We're more the more in the sense of let's fine tune what we have.

speaker-0: Mm.

speaker-1: And get to comfortness again and then to get uncomfortable once again after that. So

speaker-0: Yeah. It actually just reminds me. I I I I studied this back when I was in my master's in organizational psychology. There are like different stages of the organization. I think there's storming, norming. I forgot which stage it is, but when you were talking about this, it reminded me of all of these different stages when it comes to growth and organization. But I completely forgot about the terminology, but it's something about, you know, you're in this stage where you're you're finally coming together, finding the rhythm and adapting and everything like that. But I have to look it up again, but it just came to my mind. So yeah.

speaker-1: And I think it's cyclic, right? I don't know if it is if it is a cycle w w what you're telling me, but because

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: at the beginning for us, for both of us, it was just the both of us and it was let's find that rhythm together. Because even though we we used to work together, it was completely different. I mean different,

speaker-0: Different environment as well.

speaker-1: completely different product, different, but different different way of work because she was in charge of something and I was the head the head of the department and the whole thing. And now we're peers and we are together and we're this we're we're we're aligned we need to be aligned and it's a conversation of a of that we need to be super aligned and agreed in the things that we're gonna do because it's the both of us right and now it changed and we became very comfortable with that and now we changed and now We are uncomfortable still not again, right? And we need to find the rhythm again. And and I think we're finding it. I mean, I think we have.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: see that these and say, I don't think we have it.

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. It is a cycle as well. And actually, it just came to my mind the different stages. So basically there's like the the first stage where you are trying to build the organization, which is the forming, and then there's a storming where there's all the resistance, the conflict, the clashes, and then norming where you find the rhythm. And then of course, then there's a final part where it's kind of fine-tuning the performing stage and everything like that. And then of course, when you bring on new people or when you go through, I don't know, let's say A new rebranding or something like that, then of course the cycle itself repeats again.

speaker-1: For sure, for sure.

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. So obviously, Cece, I know that you answered this question already, but I would just like to just ask again. So what is actually coming up next for you for pulse level up? if you can share, I know of course some of the things are confidential, but what would you say are the next goals?

speaker-1: Well, we have a couple of clients in terms of in terms of this fine tuning and this let's say consolidation phase, if we wanna call it somehow. we have a couple of clients opening up in Brazil. So we wanna make sure that we set up and consolidate the operation in Brazil now. let's say that that's On the go now that's working, and we're we're very comfortable with how things are how how we are foreseeing the future over there for this year and the beginning of next year, and consolidating a little bit more of this new branch of ICP that we're looking for in Latin America and Mexico and maybe United States in the sense of these companies that are actually looking for a change, right? So I'm looking for I want my team to my sales team to level up what they're doing. That's what we're consolidating our offering and our operation. So say that next year for us will be consolidation.

speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Sounds great. All right. So just one final question that I love to ask to every guest coming onto the podcast. If there was one advice that you could pass on to aspiring entrepreneurs or business founders, what would it be?

speaker-1: I would say that I've been thinking about that a lot lately. Because for as many times that I've heard these before, you never know what it is like until you're there. So everybody says that being an entrepreneur and building your own company is not easy, but it's way more than that. It's it's not easy, but it's also Very easy when you love it a lot and you're very passionate about it, but also not easy in the sense that it comes with a lot of heartache and a lot of ups and downs, a lot of uncertainty. Uncertainty. So I would say that if you that are listening, your people that are listening, your followers, you're thinking about building your own business, make sure that you really want it. Like you're really want it and you want it for the for the I don't know if I I wouldn't say right reasons I don't think there are right reasons but there are wrong reasons for me reason is the ego so if you want it because you want to be known as a founder of a company heard that

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: before yeah yeah the title and the actual like the the Which I don't know why is that a good thing. Like w why would you want the title? But yeah. I would say that you do it because you're very passionate about what you do and you know that you're gonna solve a problem for the world that you can do really well and that you love it and you know how and you love how to do that, right? I

speaker-0: This one.

speaker-1: love this I love this this premise, it's a Japanese premise, it's called Ikigai. I don't know. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yes, part of it as well.

speaker-1: And and and Kato and I talk about it all the time, and it's like it it matches to what we do. It matches to to because we're passionate about this. We love training people, we love helping companies and helping people to do better, and we know how to do it really well. So and we're we're bringing something to the world that it needs. So all of the components of the Ikigai are there, are

speaker-0: Gotta go.

speaker-1: adding up. So I would If I were to start this all over again, I would do that exercise before I started doing this. Okay. so I that would be my suggestion.

speaker-0: Yeah, no, this is very beautiful. So definitely for the listeners out there, takeaway would be find something that they truly, truly believe in from the bottom of the heart. And of course, before starting anything, align it with the Ikigai principles as well. That will definitely be a very good compass to guide along the entrepreneur journey as well. Well, Cece, thank you so much for coming on to have this lovely conversation with me. And I definitely believe that it was a very fruitful and insightful conversation in all different aspects. And I'm pretty sure that the listeners out there, they're gonna benefit from listening to this episode. So be sure to stay tuned for the next episode from Behind the Founders. Thanks again.

speaker-1: Thank you for having me, Carmen.