The Long Game: Lisa Colantuono's 25-Year Journey Building Lasting Partnerships

to truly, truly care. Care about yourself, care about the people The most successful businesses serve others. >> Hi everyone. My name is Carmen D'Avanzo and I will be hosting today's episode of Behind the Founders. Joining me here today is Lisa Colantuono. Lisa, welcome. Can you introduce yourself? >> I sure can. You said my last name better than I can. >> Awesome. >> So, it's Yes, Lisa Colantuono from Agency Search Kaizen. I've been an agency search consultant for, I hate to say it, as of June 4th, 2026, it has been 25 years.

>> Wow, amazing. It definitely has been a very long journey. So, to get us started, could you share with the listeners out there what made you get started with Agency Search Kaizen? >> Well, I'll take you one step back. What made me get started with Agency Search? And that was a complete a fluke. Actually, I had no idea what an agency search consultant was. It was 2001, and if anybody remembers at that time, we were having some real economic hiccups. Things were a little little more south than north in terms of the economy. I was teaching college, and I taught college for about 16 years. And wanted to get back into the city. I wanted to get back into into the advertising industry in terms of an agency, which is where I started. I started at Young & Rubicam, which, as we all know, rest in peace, Y&R.

And then I was teaching. I wanted to get back into the city, into New York City. Wanted to go back to an agency, and one of my students in one of the classes had set up, "Give me your resume." And I interned at DDB, and so all right, fine. So, I go and meet the head of HR at DDB, and we had a great conversation, but I hit the same wall that I kept hitting in that past 6 months or so, which is we'd love to hire you, but we're on a freeze. >> Yeah, especially in the recent years as well, there's been a lot of hiring freezes, too. Yeah.

>> Exactly. So, we go through these cycles every so often. So, now I'm thinking I give up. I give up. And as she goes, "No, no, no, no, hold on. I have a an idea. I'm going to introduce you to somebody that runs an agency search consultancy. She owns it, and she knows so many agencies, and if there's anybody that knows who's hiring, it's this person, Leslie Winthrop." I was like, all right. So, yeah, I shrugged my shoulders. I don't know what you're talking about, but okay, fine. So, I go and I meet with Leslie, and it was a very brief, maybe 20-minute conversation, and she had said, "Why don't you just come and work here?"

And I said, "I don't know what you do, but okay." And we shook hands. I remember saying I had a good feeling about it. It was just a good feeling. I didn't know what I was getting into, but it was a good feeling. And that was 25 years ago. So, I started working with Leslie. We ended up splitting the business about 5 years later. We co-founded a second business. We were acquired in 2018, and then I ended up She retired, and I ended up working for the private equity that bought us. That private equity resold this past August, and let's just say that didn't quite pan out the way we all intended it to. So, I ended up founding Agency Search Kaizen in November 2025. So, it's What is it? 9 months, give or take. And it's been terrific. You know, I I I went from not knowing what a search consultant was to owning it to selling to working for the private equity and then re- or starting over with a new search

consultancy, but I feel like I never missed a beat at the same time. But, you know what? I had no idea what I was stepping into in 2001 and it has been such a great career. >> Amazing. Amazing. Lisa, thank you so much for walking us through your story when it comes to going into the world of agency consultancy, agency search and also like going through the setbacks that you've experienced, especially like in this day and age, the economy and everything like that. I honestly, I don't even know where to begin. I have so many questions follow up to you, but I guess first and foremost, just to like get kind of like the foundation established, I can imagine there are probably listeners out there who are not familiar with the space of agency search because that can go into so many different branches, right? So, could you just share with the listeners out there what exactly makes up an agency search?

What is like your Who are your target clients and what is it that they like What is basically their main focus? Well, after all these years, I really don't like when people say, "Oh, you're a matchmaker." No. No. Actually, it's more of a cheerleader, right? Uh There's a lot that goes into running a review. In fact, I do recall when I first met Leslie, I was like, "What's the big damn deal? Go find an agency." Like I I I remember thinking that. Like, "What's so What's so crazy about this? Go find an agency. All right. Pick a few and have a conversation and that's it."

I No. There's a lot that goes into it. Everything from you know, understanding the marketing challenge that the marketer has and the business challenge and the operations of that business and obviously the cultural compatibility and what I like to say the people behind the creds, right? Not just the creds. We don't look for agencies that have proper credentials and that's it. It's over. No, there's more to it than that. You know, a great relationship is built on great partnership which is built on great people. Right? You can't have a great Uh oh, I should say a successful relationship, business partnership, you can't have that if you don't trust each other. And you can't trust each other unless you really do respect both sides of the table. All right?

So, it's all it's all based on people. It's a relationship business first. So, I mean that's there's a lot that goes into the agency search process, but that's sort of it in a nutshell. But, your our key clients are the marketers, the the the client side, the brand side I should say. So, American Airlines, Aruba Tourism we worked with a number of time. We're finishing a review for Casey's General Convenience Retail. They're in the Midwest. We just finished the review for Trimble and Ipsen Biopharma. Like lots and lots of different categories, sectors, I should say marketing challenges.

Business challenges, discipline reviews for creative, integrated, media, PR, branding. So, we we cover lots of different disciplines and lots of different categories. >> Great. Thanks a lot for sharing. I just wanted to point out what you mentioned earlier about the importance of building trust between stakeholders, between clients, rapport, and everything like that. I feel like that often times is often overlooked, right? We often get carried away with our operational day-to-day stuff where we believe that's one approach of what we're doing is, I would say, aligned than the other, but I think what you mentioned right there about the element of rapport and trust is so important but overlooked. But at the same time, I do notice also like from my observation, also from my own personal experience in the career world, that that is often an element where there's a lot of, I wouldn't say

stiffness, but there's like some sense of rigidity in aspect. Um, I guess I'd love to know from your perspective, what do you think goes into, like the different factors that go into ensuring, you mentioned, you know, respect between the both parties, that goes into ensuring that the trust is there between two people, between the clients. >> It's a hard question to answer, and quite frankly, it's it's it's a hard thing to build. It takes trust just takes time. And if you think about your own personal relationships, let's just say we just met recently. Do you trust me yet? Probably not really. I mean, you have a feeling that you can trust me based on referrals and, you know, research that you've done on me and what have you, but do you really truly trust me yet? No. And that's because we haven't spent a ton of time together.

And that is important in any business relationship. In any business setting, I should say. All right, so you need the time. You know, everybody I I think one of the biggest problems today is that there is a lack of time, and time is such a precious commodity. Yet, because of technology, technology is wonderful, but yet it's stealing our time. And I think how it's doing it is because we're so used to moving so fast. All right, everything could be done in in seconds now. AI is another paradigm shift. Every what every 20 years something happens in technology that just the whole society moves to the next level.

All right, so we're moving to that next level again. Now, I'm not against AI but I'm not sure I'm in love with it either. It's it's making us move even faster and because of that it's stealing time meaning we're always I don't have time. You ever hear yourself I don't have time. I don't have time. I I I hear myself saying that all the time. I don't have time. I don't have time. Why don't I have time? And you need I'll go back to your question. You need the time to build a trusted relationship. You know, I'll I'll go to when I was when I left AR Partners, right? So when that ended for me which was a tough moment in my life. Wait, maybe I was there 24 and a half years. The outpour of support from the industry was absolutely overwhelm I was overwhelmed and flattered beyond I don't even know what the word is actually. Right. When I say somewhere around a thousand people reached out between emails and LinkedIn

and phone calls and text messages and Facebook messages and I mean it was it was pouring in from all over the place. The flowers that I were that was receiving. I I mean all sorts of support from people in this industry that I have known either a year or so or 20 four and a half years. That's what I'm talking about. I mean that if all of this happened and I was only in the industry for six months, I don't know, maybe five people would have reached out. But hundreds and hundreds reached out. Why? Because all this time went by that I spent authentically spent caring about so many people in the industry. I mean, I truly care. I truly truly care.

Like, this isn't just a business for me. I think of it as I'm helping people save their job. I'm helping people improve their career. I'm helping people learn about the industry. I I love when I have to work with young folks coming in. I I love mentoring them and giving them some advice and sharing what I went through. You know, I I often think your purpose, I think all of us, our purpose in life is to pay it forward. Right? Do Do something to improve this world a little bit before you exit. And And I think that's very important.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely beautiful what you said right there. You know, it's all about trying to find your place in terms of leaving a very positive impact in the society, in the world that we live in because, like you mentioned, any small change, any small action you take can already make a really big difference as well, no matter how big or small it is. It's going to pay off as well. So, I just wanted to Yeah, just acknowledge and say I really value what you mentioned there. >> Yeah, thank you. I mean, I really mean it. You know, there's there's more to life than just getting a paycheck, obviously. You know, and I I think the biggest purpose in life is to help others in in one way or another. And sometimes it's just a small little act of kindness. Sometimes it's a little bigger than that. But, you know, I I do believe that there's purpose in business. It's not just about, you know,

how big can you grow and how big can you get and you know, how much money can you make? I You know, sure, we all want to do well, but there's more to it than just doing well. >> Yeah. >> It's it's it's you know, it's how how much good can you do is really what it's about. >> Yeah, especially when it's aligned with when it comes to aligning with values, whether it's about integrity, whether it's about compassion and everything like that. I believe that also that any small action brings the same value as well, just like in different spaces, too.

>> That's exactly it. And then lucky we I go back to trust again, back to the question of you know, what does it take? Well, I think it's I think mistakes build trust in terms of how you react to them and how you respond to them. Now, everybody makes mistakes. We we all make mistakes. There's not a single person on this planet that gets out without making mistakes. But how do you react to them? And how do you react to somebody that makes a mistake? >> That's a good one. Yeah. >> You know, that that's another thing. I I'm I made a big mistake in May and someone reacted and it wasn't the nicest reaction, but that person also caught caught it and apologized, which was very nice, you know. And we and we all go through different moments, you know, and we're we're stressed or maybe we're in pain over something or you know, I mean, there's so many outside factors that impact how we react, but

I I say it's my I have a 17-year-old nephew who I and my 14-year-old niece I adore them both. And then I try to give them business lessons all the time. And I and I'm always saying to my nephew who's now about to go to college. I'm a proud aunt. He's going to Princeton. >> Amazing. Congratulations to him. >> Thank you. But I'm always telling him think before you do. Think before you say. Think before you react. It's hard. Don't get me wrong, it's hard. >> Yeah, that's true. Easy to say, hard to do when you match them two together.

>> It is. Like like I like I'll even I'll I do my best if I'm really upset with something not to answer that email right away. >> Yeah. >> Just just just let it go in the other room. Go in the other room. Get away from the computer. It's important. But anyway, it's a long drawn out answer to a simple well, a complicated question. Trust just takes time. You know, it takes time. It takes making mistakes with each other. It takes maybe traveling with each other. It takes working with each other. You know, and you learn about each other and then you start to trust that person, you know.

Eventually, you ever hear people say I trust him with my with my life. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I mean there are there are certain people that you you get to that point and that's wonderful. >> Yeah, amazing of course. And as you said, it does take time as well. And I also want to like go back to the point about when it comes to making mistakes. I think that also ties in nicely with the trust building element, right? If you make a mistake and you are comfortable enough to feel safe to communicate the mistake that you make and own up to it. And also like the part of how the mistakes have been received by the other person. Would that person acknowledge it? Would that person because often times we're afraid to tell them, "Hey, I made a mistake or I did this because of how they would react because of the guilt that comes with it as well. But if it's received in a very safe space, that itself would gradually

build a trusting relationship because it's more of like instead of like pointing each other you are the problem. It's more of like, "Okay, what can we do about it? What can we learn from this? What can we do to ensure that what are the solutions around to that as well?" So it's like rather more solution approach which is kind of like this team building aspect rather than okay, it's a you problem and you versus me. That creates a division and that itself is kind of like I would say it's kind of like breaking the trust a little bit as well. So, I I think they all definitely do come together as well.

>> They absolutely do. And you know, I remember, oh, you just reminded me of a story from when I was just starting out in the industry. I was probably I don't know, 23 years old. And I was [clears throat] a print specialist, which I'm not even sure that exists anymore. At Young & Rubicam, and I made what was called, what I called, the million-dollar mistake. >> And >> I I actually don't remember all the details at this point, but it was a media plan that I was putting together. And it was for the client. And if I remember correctly, I I think I accidentally had an extra zero. I And it turned into an extra million dollars. I didn't so it was something to that effect, right?

And it went to the client, and I don't know how it passed through the guy I was reporting to, but it did. And so I made a million-dollar mistake. We were like a million dollars under or over, or whatever it was. So, I always called it the million-dollar mistake. Now, what I did, I went to the guy that I reported to and said, "Look, I'm really sorry." I said, "But I'm not going to try to hide it. I made a big mistake. And I'm coming to you to, number one, let you know, and number two, I'm happy to correct it and whatever you need me to do, but I don't want to brush it under the carpet and let this get worse, right? So, I just want to come clean and tell you that I I apologize and let's see what we can do to fix it, or you know, tell me what I can do to fix it." And and he really appreciated all of that, right?

So, for such a young professional, most people would, I guess, would freak out, right? And try to Do we hide it or not? But I didn't do it like that. No. And he was He was receptive to it. He listened and he was calm about it. He was like, "All right. No big No big deal. Let's Let's just talk to the client and tell him it was an honest mistake and that's it. What more can you do? >> Yeah. >> So, that built trust right away where he knew that he could trust me. Now, you know, right right down to when I when we first sold the company, right? And I was working with the CFO and commission structures, right? And he would go through the numbers each month and he quickly knew that he can trust me with anything. Right? Cuz I would say, "No, Mike, you I think you paid me for that one already, right?" So, he within one or two interactions, it's like, "I trust you. Do everything each month. It'll all

work itself out in the wash. No big deal. If if we overpay you 500 bucks here, it'll all take care of it later." He's like, "I'm not going to go crazy with you." Right? So, I was like, "It's And it's an honor for somebody to trust you like that." It really is. It's It's very flattering. But you have to earn it. >> absolutely for sure. >> Or definitely time and earning it. Also, I would say sometimes it's hard to explain it, but sometimes also a bit of intuition as well. It's really hard to like feel it, but that's something that I've also experienced as well when it comes to trust. So, just I wanted to kind of tie back into when it comes to trust building with the clients that you have at the agency Search Kaizen. Tell me a little bit more about the different >> Well, as I said earlier, I mean it runs a gamut in terms of the sectors. I mean, this year alone, it's been Aruba

Tourism, it's been Evermore Orlando Resort, it's been Ipsen BioPharma, it's been Casey's, it's been Trimble, it's been I'm missing somebody. Harvest Hill, you know, SunnyD, Juicy Juice, right? So, all different categories and and types of disciplines as well. But the brands range from, you know, travel to financial, to retail, to tourism, to etc., etc. So, it we've covered Oh my gosh, we've covered so many sectors over the years. >> Yeah. And in terms of like all those different brands, you know, industries, different sectors that you work with, what would you say has been If you had like maybe like a memorable story of the right agency partnership that completely transformed that particular business?

>> It is a loaded question. And I can tell you stories, pitch stories where it didn't work. Probably a lot easier than where it worked. Not that they don't work. I That came out wrong. I You know, the bottom line is it takes I mean, it it it takes a couple of months to find the right agency. It really does. You got to go through a few different rounds. We have to Probably the most important thing is for us to align the client internally. If you can't can't talk to a single agency until that client is internally aligned.

If they are not, then it's going to all fall apart. See, see, running a review is like building a house, right? So, each phase, if you will, has to do something, has to accomplish something. So, the founda- If the foundation isn't there, obviously the house is going to fall apart. So, it's really critical to make sure that their criteria, business challenges, marketing challenges, what they need to accomplish in the first 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, a couple of years out. All of this has to be understood and as clear as possible. Some Some things we don't really have the answers for. You know, that's part of the learning as we go through it or finding the right agency to help answer those questions.

But it is uh it's a building block approach, right? So, in order to find the most appropriate agency, that has to be the first step. Then, as we go through it, it's an elimination process until we get to the end, then it's a selection process when you're down to those final two or three agencies. You know, and then, my goodness, I mean, there are plenty of agencies that I'm very proud to say that the relationship not only outlasted the industry average, but just keep going, right? And I and I'll give you one story. Uh this was for Aruba Tourism, and this was 2020. We all know 2020. I'm running a media review for a tourism brand when the borders are shutting down. This is real-world stuff now, right? Because you have to realize that Aruba's tourism is what runs that country. They they depend on it. So, we're running a review, we're trying to find a proper media agency, the borders are closing,

and they didn't stop the review because it was that important to get the right, critically important, to get the right agency to help them not only through this, but to help them with the original challenge, too. So, the CEO, or I go back to trust now, she knew me. Uh everything goes back to trust. >> Yeah, everything. >> She knew me for a number of years, right? I know I've I've probably 10 years. And I did seven-ish reviews over the years, may maybe a little more, a little less, whatever it was. Different types of reviews over the years. So, she had said, "Lisa, you know us. You've been doing this with us over the years, and you know who we are. You know what we need. This is no longer just an agency search. This is survival. Our borders are closed. Tourism is shut down. Nobody knew what was about to happen. I need you to select the finalists." I felt like I had the weight

of the world on my shoulders for a minute, right? >> A bit of pressure, yeah. >> It was a bit of pressure because this truly was no longer just Not that it's ever just an agency search, but it really was another level, right? So, I picked the I can't remember It was three, four finalists, and that the winning agency is still with them six years later. Not only still with them as a media agency, but they did so well with them and built such a great partnership that they then handed them all of the creative to do. So, the business expanded with that agency over the six years. And so, it's first it started with the media for a couple of years or so, and then I think it was three years later they were handed the creative, something to that effect. So, I think that's a good story to show you the type of work and the impact of the work that we do. Now, then of course, it gets into the fun stories that I call

pitch theater, right? Um I give you one of them. This This is a classic. I must have said this story >> Let's hear it. >> 20 times over the years. It was for Ben & Jerry's. >> Okay. >> Okay. Now, you have to envision all of this. We're in Philadelphia, and it was a number of years ago, so Leslie was still working with me, and we are on the Amtrak with the clients, and there's four or five of us, and we get into Philadelphia's 30th Street Station, which if you go in there, you the train is under, and you got to go up the escalator, and then you're in the station. And we're walking through the station. It's 10:00 in the morning, and the station is packed. It's like First of all, it's 10:00 in the morning.

Where are all these Shouldn't they be at work? Then if you really paying attention, they're all walking around with a cup of Ben & Jerry's. I'm trying to find something that it I don't have any >> I don't have that. Yeah, it just this little cup of Ben & Jerry's ice cream, which didn't You couldn't buy it. It didn't exist in the in the supermarket, right? In the in the grocery store. Okay, now we and that was terrific, actually. That was That was really clever because what the agency showed was they uncovered and did such great research to uncover this brand extension, got their hands on it.

Now and maybe in one way it could have been a little dangerous. You know, who knows how how confidential it was, but anyway, they put this these cups into all these people's hands and it was really, really clever. Now it gets crazy. We go out the door into the cars from the agency. The agency had three or four cars waiting for us. So, we all get into cars and if you were paying attention and looking out the window and well, then you didn't even have cell phones like, you know, smartphones. So, I guess you were looking out the window. It was a 10-minute ride to the agency and in three or four places there were apparently it was people from the agency dressed in cow costumes. And one guy was reading the paper in the financial district. One guy was on a telephone.

And remember the telephone booths? It So, it So, all right. He was on the telephone. One guy, I can't remember. There I think there were three of them. Okay, now we get to the agency and the the few cars pull up and as you pull up, you have to remember you're in Philadelphia, concrete, sidewalks. They rolled out after AstroTurf and there was a live cow standing on the What? AstroTurf with I have to tell you, it gets even worse. With a I think it was a woman sitting there milking the cow. >> Okay, wow. That's crazy.

>> We were done. I mean, frankly, one of the VPs of marketing, and I'm going to forget his name now. He's Marty, I think his name is Marty. And if if they did any kind of homework, Marty came from Procter & Gamble. You don't screw around. You know, you don't just frivolously, you know, blow your blow your budget. He got out of the car. I'm surprised he even got out of the car. And he said, "I'm done. Do we need to go in?" It's like, yeah, you do. You have to You have to go in. And but it was over. I mean, it was completely over. He I don't I don't I doubt he listened to one word of that whole meeting. That was probably the longest hour and a half, 2 hours of his life. And and we walked out and he's like, "Nothing to talk about." Wow. No words. No words.

No words. All right. Yeah, that And those things don't really happen anymore. I mean, there are still pitch theater-ish kind of things, but you know, the days of Batman, I I think those those are pretty much over. Everybody knows better by now. But I think, you know, it's an it's such a a grandiose kind of story. But it it highlights the lesson, which is know your audience, and fluff doesn't win. You know, you know, it's it's it's intelligence. It's human intelligence. It's it's strategy. It's business acumen. It's understanding their consumers. It's it's understanding the people. And again, you know what I'm about to say. It's about building trust.

But trust goes back to trust, yeah. Go back to trust again. But that did not build trust whatsoever. And in fact, he said it. I almost think the line was something like, "I will never trust them with my budget." >> Okay. >> I think that was the line. Now that now that I just said the word trust again. And I think that was the line. And he's was "I I would not trust them my budget. >> If they spend like this, which is ridiculous, right? >> And not that they spent that much on it, but it was just it was just a perception of everything. It was it was crazy.

>> So, anyway, yeah, those are two different totally two different stories, right? Opposite ends of the spectrum. You got, you know, the Rubicon tourism where the the borders are shutting down, and it's all about business, and we this is about survival at this point and making sure we have the most appropriate agency to build our business with us. And you got the other end of the spectrum, you know, where they're just I don't know. around, and guys like, you're not touching them. >> Yeah. But, you know, either way, it just shows that, you know, with the mix of the success stories and what you called, you know, the theater pitch and so on, it really goes to show that through that there's always something that you learned out of it. And I really love what you mentioned about the Ben & Jerry's example is the fact that it's all about, really, like you said, building trust and also really

understanding the needs and the audience and the clients and everything like that because when you don't take the time to do that, that erases the trust, too, which is going back to what we I guess that is really like the core theme of, you know, this podcast episode discussion, too. So, I'd love to learn a little bit more about, you know, your current team setup, right? I always believe that, you know, it's always about having, like you said, building trustful relationships with team members. What does your setup look like in terms of your team setup right now?

>> Well, first of all, your team is everything, all right? You know, the again, another line I say to my nephew, your your network is your net worth. >> Network, yeah, yeah. >> Your network is your net worth. I really, really believe that. The people you surround yourself with is probably one of the most important decisions you ever make in in your life. You become like them, And if they're if you're really smart about it, you will always surround yourself with people smarter than you in one way or another.

And because there's no way, no how anybody can know everything. There is. So, with that said, it took me a very long time to find the Well, it was a running joke for many, many years with somebody in the industry that I met on the agency side. So, I was a search consultant and she was a new business executive at different agencies, FCB, Saatchi, others in between. And we became quick friends. Not that we talked all the time. I mean, but anytime we talked, we just sort of like time never passed and we just picked up. And that's a sign of somebody that you can trust, too. Right? And over time, she did prove and I proved to her, she proved to me that we can trust each other. Certain things that we confidentially told each other, right?

And it stayed in confidence. Well, there you go. So, over the decade, literally over the decades, we would have this running joke of someday we'll work together, right? And then someday finally happened. So, in 20 I think it was 2020. I can't remember. I think it was 2020-ish. I was under the private act with the first private equity and I was on my own. I mean, I had a team people from them, but but I really ran the the search consultancy. And I had five reviews going on, different stages and different types of reviews. They weren't five massive reviews, but I was able to handle it and but it was a lot. And I called her at that point and I was getting a little bit of pressure from the CEO at the time that said, "I need you to bring somebody else in uh because first of all there's only so much you can do and number two, what happens if you get smashed by a bus, God forbid, but I I I got it. I understood it. It

was like, "Okay." But I wasn't going to bring anybody in. I'm not teaching this business to just anybody I don't trust. Now we go back to trust. Right? So I called Kim who is now on the team and and part of Agency Search Guys and obviously. And I had said, "Remember that running joke?" She's like, "Yeah." I said, "It's not a joke anymore." >> It's turning into reality. >> Right. So she's like, [clears throat] "What are you talking about?" I said, "Don't make me beg you." So I don't know. It was a 15-minute conversation.

She's like and and it just so happened to be that she was looking she was in between things and so I said, "Come on, give it a whirl." So she's like, "All right." And that was six years ago. So yeah, I never looked back. I never had to think about trusting her ever. Right? And and and not She is one of those people I trust her with my life. >> Mhm. >> Right? I mean, that's just what it is and that's what turned into a great business partnership, right? So So she's part of Agency Search Guys and and then I have another guy who does some another part of the business. So there's three maybe there's three or four of us and there's another then somebody else in Kansas City that we work with here and there. So I have a small team, but I consider us all business partners.

>> Amazing. All right. Yeah, so it seems like it's like a team of four people, you know, some working remotely. And in terms of the operational growth, are you looking to grow and expand your team in terms of support if you had to like hand over something to make your life easier, where do you see yourself growing in terms of like getting more people in. >> Yeah, well, it's funny you ask the question cuz I've been losing sleep over this. I think it's in sales now. Yeah, now I you know, I used to do owning a business, you know, obviously you get all of the operations that you got to deal with and then it's sales and stewardship and content that I have to do and I'm Kim is running the majority of the reviews, but I'm behind every single one of them and then I have to travel. So So there's a there's a lot going on now.

Sitting in the seat as a founder and owner, right? So now I'm trying to figure out, okay, how do I get some help in terms of sales? >> Okay. >> And so that's that's an area that >> All right. So that would you would say is something that's considered like I don't like the word pain point, but I would say it's like the challenge that you're looking for in terms of finding somebody to help you when it comes to sales and everything like that. >> Yeah, I mean, listen, you can't grow a business without sales. All right, so I've been doing it myself, but it's hard to do everything.

>> Absolutely. >> All right, so it's just so we all do the same thing. The sales and the the outreach and all of that, that always seems to get fall by the wayside, put it that way, because everything else has to happen. And then it's like, all right, I have a couple of hours, let me focus on that. And that's not how you do proper sales, right? Cuz sales, I don't think of sales as selling. I think of sales as teaching and you know, sharing valuable content, right? Not content pollution. Right? I'm not a big >> I love that you mentioned there content pollution.

>> Yeah, it is. There's so much. Yes, there's so much of it out there and everybody's trying to get your time and your attention and it's just we are in an attention deficit economy. >> Absolutely, for sure. >> world. Yeah, we just don't we don't pay attention anymore because we don't Again, we go back to I don't have the time. Right? So, if it's going to grab my attention, it has to be very highly valuable, highly relevant, of course, timely. I mean, it's um it's a hard It's a hard job now, more than ever before.

Yeah, because we just have so much coming at us. What's the fact? We see something like 7,000 Not 7, I think it's 17,000 ads or logos of some sort a day. >> Oh, yeah. >> I mean >> Everywhere. Yeah, it's all hidden and decoded. Yeah, that's for sure. >> Well, listen, Neil. You're looking at my You're looking at my logo. >> Yeah, there you go. >> I I mean, it's just >> Everywhere. >> It's everywhere. >> It's everywhere. It's It's everywhere. It's everywhere. Like I'm sitting in front of First Avenue over here. Every bus that goes by has an ad.

>> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> It's Yeah, that's a tough job. It really is. It's It's It's not about selling anymore. It's truly about teaching and sharing valuable >> Yeah, rather than the pollution content pollution like you mentioned as well. I really like that terminology that you mentioned because I think it's really It just shows that it's going the opposite of being very intentional about who you choose to pitch it to or build the relationships with or partner up with.

So, I really love like how the analogy that you wrote that you mentioned as well. So, just like the last question before we close this episode. So, this is a question that I love to typically ask for every single one of my guests coming into this podcast. If there was one piece of advice, you know, you mentioned that you shared a lot of business insights with your nephew and your nieces and so on. Maybe you could take one of those, but if there was one advice that you would share to people considering starting a business, becoming an entrepreneur, or founder, what would it be?

>> To truly care. There's a lot, actually. It's but that pops out of my mouth first, right? To truly truly care. Care about yourself, care about the people you're serving and servicing. Right? I think the best businesses out there, even if they're not in the service business, the most successful businesses serve others. It's not transactional, it's how can I help make you your life better. You have to and I mean have to be in love with what you do in order to be successful as well. You are never ever going to have a successful business unless you are truly passionate about what you do because to own a business, and I mean it, it's 24/7.

It it I >> Really? >> Yeah. >> It never le- it never leaves you. I go to work I go to I go to work thinking I go to sleep thinking about it. I wake up thinking about it. I work an average of 14 15 hours a day. I mean, there are some days, of course. In fact, this morning I got su- I got sucked into the semi-finals of the Wimbledon mat- match with the Coco Gauff. I'm a big tennis fan. So, it's like, all right, what's what's 45 minutes? So, I just sort of stopped everything and I couldn't help it. I was sucked into it cuz it got pretty intense. But, you have to love what you do to the point that you want to serve others, you want to help others, and you're going to be able to work more than sleep. I mean, it it really does come down to that. So, that's that's very very important. And to always do what is right for the other person. Integrity. I mean >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, sometimes I know. It's like, oh, I could, you know, get an extra five grand or whatever. Do what's right for them. Just do what's right for them because your name, your the the other than the people you surround yourself with being a critical decision. The other critical decision is to protect your name. Your name is everything or it's nothing. And I said it to my nephew, too. Your name is going to precede you in life and certainly in the business world. And if you build a reputation that people can trust you and that they hold you in high regard, that's just opens doors, right? It just opens doors.

Why did I have a thousand people reaching out to me? Because I did right Somebody said it to me. They said cuz I I had said I I was blown away. And they said, "Why? You have helped so many people over the years and it was time for us to help you." >> Wow. >> And I said I was almost in tears at that one. >> Yeah, I'm I'm starting to feel it, too. I'm like that is so that is like such a beautiful emotional moment as well for you. It's like, you know, it really like warms your heart as well. >> It It did, you know, and look.

And finally, my my third is faith is very very important. If you don't have it, find it. And I I mean that. Find it. It's There is a higher order. I mean, you can't deny it. I think when you're when you think like that that we're all one, then you're going to do what's right all the time. Anyway, >> Amazing. Yeah, Lisa, thank you so much. I think honestly this conversation, I know it's going to be very helpful for the listeners out there and even for myself, I feel like I'm learning a lot and also I'm probably after the episode, I'm going to probably do a little bit of an introspection, reflection because >> [laughter] >> there's a lot of things that I can take that are just going beyond the world of the business as well. So, Lisa, thank you so much again for coming on. This is Behind the Founders. Be sure to stay tuned for the next episode.