Founding Empathive: How Ashley Janelle Built the UX Boot Camp She Wish She Had

Ashley Janelle: a lot of companies now want generalists. They want someone that can take the the problem from it's just a problem to, research through the design and actually to a thing that we can see or touch or whatever it is.

Carmen: Hi everyone, this is Carmen Devet and I will be hosting today's episode of Behind the Founders. Joining me here today is Ashley Janelle. Ashley, welcome. Can you introduce yourself?

Ashley Janelle: Yes. Hi Carmen. Thank you so much for having me. I'm Ashley Janelle. I am an award-winning UX designer. I am also the founder of Empathive, which is a 16-week UX boot camp that helps students go from beginner to experience. So I'm really excited to be talking to you today.

Carmen: Yeah, really excited to learn a little bit more about what you've been building at Empathive. So to get us started, what inspired you to actually go from working in Amazon to launching your own business with Empathive?

Ashley Janelle: Yeah, absolutely. So I actually found Empathive back in twenty nineteen. And the reason was because I am the product of a UX boot camp. but before that I was the product of art school that I didn't think did the best job preparing me for the job that I was looking for at the time, which was something like a graphic design, web design job, and had a mentor that told me about UX. And I took a boot camp, and that's what launched me actually into UX. however, I felt like I wanted to build the course that I wished that I had a course. I started doing some mentorship, and I was doing that kind of as research because what I was really trying to do was to understand what it was that people wanted out of a boot camp, like, or not even a boot camp, but what was missing. When people were looking to learn UX, where were they struggling? Were they anti-course? Were they pro course? Did they not even know about courses? and you know, what kinds of questions did they have? Where were they struggling? And so I used that as research. And that is what propelled me into building out the sixteen week boot camp that we have today.

Carmen: Okay, that's definitely very exciting stuff as well. I think it's always interesting to do like this reverse engineering to first identify what is like the the pain points, the bottlenecks, the loopholes that why is it that people are not really looking for a course or looking for a boot cam as well. So let's just go a couple of steps backward, right? There's probably some listeners out there who don't come from a background of UX design or user experience, could you share with the listeners and audience out there what is exactly UX or what is the world of UX?

Ashley Janelle: Yeah, so really great question. So UX is a short way of saying user experience design. And what that is is essentially the human psychology behind why people make the decisions that they make. And a lot of times when we're talking about it, we're talking about it in the sense of someone doing something, going through some type of an experience. And that experience could be using their favorite application on their phone, it could be using their Apple Watch and you know, using the actual interface. And it could also be something like going through a drive-thru at McDonald's. That is an experience. And so what we try to do is make sure that the experience that people are having is the experience that they should be having. It's the experience that they expect to have. When you open up your TikTok app, for example, what experience are you expected to be delivered to you? What are you looking for? What's pain, what's painful for you when you're actually using the app? so we really try to dive deep into those insights, dive deep. to uncover those insights and then from there use that research and those insights to build a better solution.

Carmen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and of course, to be able to build a better user-friendly experience as well. And of course, that's definitely very important because it surrounds us as well, depending on all the different types of products or services that we're using. Okay, so tell the listeners a little bit about the 16-week boot camp and the program and the structure and everything that goes behind it.

Ashley Janelle: Yeah. So the 16 week boot camp is designed for the full-time worker, someone who is working a full-time job but wants to get out of their full-time job, whatever that is. and it may not be a full time job, but we designed it for full-time workers to be able to do. there are a lot of reasons why people want to transition into UX. A lot of times it's because they want to make more money. A lot of times it's because they can't stand what it is that they're doing right now and they want to do something else. And so We have designed the course in a way that is palatable. and so it one of the best things about the boot camp is that it's not just a boot camp, it's not just a course. It is an experience. It's a full service UX boot camp, is what I call it, because part of what it comes with is private coaching. You have the ability to actually work with a senior designer that's going to help you get you from where you are currently to where you want to be. Now, a lot of times when people hear that, they're thinking, Strictly in the sense of the course and you know the the information that the course provides and the projects that it is that you're working on. But there's a real beauty in working with someone who is senior, helping you to transition into a field. Doesn't happen all the time. A lot of times you may have an instructor that you're, you know, kind of assigned to, but that is very different than someone who is assigned to you specifically and someone who is invested in your growth and development. specifically. And so a lot of times those conversations span from obviously anything that's they're working on in the class to what does it actually look like to work in a UX role? You know, like no one's ever explained it to me. Like what does it look like? Who are the people I'm gonna be working with? What does my manager expect of me when I get there? What does it actually take to get promoted? What is the what does the market look like today? Being able to have those conversations with someone that you are building or reporting Has been one of the biggest assets that a lot of our graduates have told us about. And it's really one of the strongest parts of the 16-week UX boot camp. And obviously, we help with everything from interview preparation to a lot of our back doorways to finding roles. and this is nothing that is new for us. obviously, the industry is changing, the tech industry is changing, what hiring looks like is changing. We have not really had to change a lot about our program. Yes, we have implemented AI and we talk a lot about it and we make sure that you are working on projects that actually have AI built into the solution. So we're working with you to develop those skills and really understand what that looks like. But from a land from a full landscape perspective, our course has not needed to change because we have always taught from this very generalist. Mentality, which is you're gonna learn all aspects of UX. You're gonna be prepared for any role that you go into or any task that's asked of you once you're on the job. you know, to the private coaching. We have really built the spoot camp over the last almost seven years to be exactly what is needed for a time such as this when we find ourselves in a market that looks different.

Carmen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely for sure. Right. There's always gonna be a constant change, constant adaptability with the market, also with AI coming into play as well. And I think it's yeah, it sounds like you and your team are really thinking ten steps ahead to really have a combination of a generalist but also customized approach so that they're able to venture into all of these different directions as well and of course build onto these different roles too. so how are the the classes structured? Is it a one-to-one coaching program or are there also classes offered for group settings and what kind of students have you been getting?

Ashley Janelle: Yeah, really great question. So the boot camp experience that you will have is one-to-one. And we have been running it that way since twenty nineteen. And the reason being is because like I said, I'm the product of a boot camp. So I understand things that work and things that don't work. I've also done hiring. I also work on this side of it where my job now is to help students find jobs. So I've

Carmen: Mm-hmm.

Ashley Janelle: been in all of the different positions that you can be in. And one of the things that you don't want to have is a Portfolio piece that consists of different key players. You want to make sure that you have touched, you are responsible for every single part of the problem solving process and the UX process. And the only way to do that is to make sure that you are the only one who is working on said problem and solving the problems. And so the way that the boot camp is structured is that there is an online piece where you are, you know, watching all of the training material. But then after that, you are solely working with your mentor. So when you have questions on what it is that you saw, you're chatting with your mentor. you meet with your mentor, you know, one-on-one. and that is done, you know, weekly throughout the course and as needed, as a student needs it. And so there is so much support. you know. You will always have questions and questions are amazing. We love questions. Please ask us any and everything. And that is where you know your senior designer is there to s to really support you and make sure that you have everything that you need.

Carmen: Yeah, I love the fact that you actually have senior designer who actually come specifically from that background and experience to be able to be the point of contact to kind of like set the expectation, you know, what is it that they're looking for if you do transition into the world of UX design? Because that's definitely very helpful to have that background and that knowledge and that expertise as well. And in terms of I'm I'm not sure if you have any like stat statistics to share to the listeners out there, but once they complete this sixteen hour boot camp, what kind of outcomes have you been seeing in terms of the transition they made into getting a role as a UX designer? How does that look like in the statistics?

Ashley Janelle: Yeah. So for the sixteen week boot camp, what so I will say it looks very different than when we started back in twenty nineteen. And that is the industry as a whole. that's kind of where we are with hiring. When I first started the boot camp, our students were getting jobs around three to four months post grad. now we're seeing on average about five to six months. And that is not, you know, just us, that is the UX industry as a whole. And that is just kind of where we are today in August of twenty twenty six with hiring. so yeah, as soon as our students are applying for jobs, as soon as they're ready to start applying, we're seeing on average about six months.

Carmen: Okay. what are the challenges that you see in the UX industry in general?

Ashley Janelle: Yeah, is that pertaining to hiring or student new new grads coming out or

Carmen: Yeah, I would say mainly in the hiring industry, right? Because you mentioned that, you know, it takes them, you know, around five to six

Ashley Janelle: Mm-hmm.

Carmen: months to be able to land something as well. So I'd be curious to know your perspective on this as well.

Ashley Janelle: Yeah, so I think the long and the short of it is that a lot of companies have done layoffs and so

Carmen: Yeah.

Ashley Janelle: we're seeing less roles available. I think that at like we can probably start and end right there. The other

Carmen: Yeah, the supply and demand gap. Yeah.

Ashley Janelle: Exactly. And that's why I say in 2019, you know, 2019 through probably 2023, early 2024, it was about three to four months to get hired. And so now what it is that we are seeing is our students we're we're kind of transitioning away from like this idea of a specialist and into more of a generalist, which works well for us because we have always taught this very general generalist way of approaching UX. and so what that means is like There are different roles for UX. So you can not just be a UX designer, you can, you know, apply as a UX researcher, strategist, UX content writer, information architecture, and so on and so forth. And so what I have always emphasized is that you need to be learning everything. And

Carmen: Mm-hmm.

Ashley Janelle: not only helps you once you get in the job, if you know, your manager says, Hey, can you work on this research? You have the ability to that. Hey, can you write this copy? You have the ability to do that. But also I never want any of my students or anyone out there to turn down jobs because they don't have a certain skill set. Like in our boot camp, we teach you everything. Yes, you will probably gravitate towards the design or to the research, but become a master at all things so that when no matter what job pops up on a job board, you can actually do it. confident doing it. And so I will say that is one thing that we are seeing is that a lot of companies now want generalists. They want someone that can take the the problem from it's just a problem to, you know, research through the design and actually to a fully realized, you know, thing that we can see or touch or whatever it is. And so those are some of the shifts. Another shift that a lot of people aren't talking about as much is AI. And AI is something that Is here, it has been here, and more companies are implementing into their features. I'm sure if you go on any website that you went on two years ago, now it has some sort of an AI feature. You may, but it's there, and

Carmen: Mm-hmm. Somewhere, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Ashley Janelle: there's a demand for a lot of these platforms to have AI features built into them. So you UX designer. And yes, as a junior UX designer, you have to have the education around, first of all, what artificial intelligence is, what it is as it pertains to UX. And then when you get into UX, how do you actually build that into your problem solving? What are some of the different ways that you can use AI and utilize some of the features to actually make your solution better or smarter, faster

Carmen: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ashley Janelle: for a user? That's really, really important. And so you have to take that. implement it into your solutions and then be able to talk about it. You got to be able to show what it is that you did, what your thought process was, just as if you were solving any other problem any other way. So that's something else. That's another thing to learn. we implemented AI training about two years ago. And it's something that, you know, you have to have in this industry is that AI training.

Carmen: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I do wanna acknowledge the fact that what you mentioned earlier on is that now if you were to compare a few years ago versus now, you're gonna see everywhere, whether it's in the business, whether it's on the website, there is some sort of AI feature, whether it's like a chat bot, right? Or whether it's a tool that you use or a CRM, it is surrounding us a lot as well. So, like looking at Empath Live, how did you integrate AI or which Which features of AI have you integrated at Empathive?

Ashley Janelle: Yeah. So really when I think about the integration that we've done, it's really in terms of a the lessons. So integrating artificial intelligence, like just at a baseline, like what is it? And how can I really wrap my head around AI and UX and how if I'm a UX designer, how can I implement AI? Like I wanna implement it, I I I think I wanna use it, I think it could work well for this solution, but like how do I do that? So one is on the education, and then two is around the one-on-one training. So that's really where our students are going to get the crux of the understanding of how their problem that they're solving can be, you know, like I said, better, smarter, or faster using artificial intelligence. So really making sure that our students feel comfortable going into interviews as well as their first day on the job, their first week, their first quarter, their first year on the job. Having had some experience with how to think about AI in terms of UX and their solutions.

Carmen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's for sure as well. It's also about learning to get comfortable how to navigate AI because using AI itself, it is definitely like a skill. It isn't something like you can use on Google where you could just type any question, but it's also like how you build and develop the prompts and how you code, how you design different let's say surveys or anything like that that's related to AI, because you can have so much done with that, but it's also about how you would use that as well, too. okay, so Ashley, let's talk a little bit about your up the operational aspect, right? in terms of how your team looks like. So could you walk us through a little bit about what kind of support you've been having? What does your team structure look like?

Ashley Janelle: Really great question. Really easy answer. It is just me.

Carmen: All right.

Ashley Janelle: It is just me. It has always pretty much been just me. I have

Carmen: Yeah.

Ashley Janelle: from a business side, I don't have a business degree. I have this is my second business that I've run. And so I've had over the years, I've had business coaches to help me, you know, fill the gaps in areas where I didn't understand. So I've I've seeked out a lot of knowledge on the business front. but it has always been just me. I am a solopreneur. I have hired virtual assistants to help me with, you know, certain parts of the business like automation and things like that. But on a day to day, it is just me. I'm

Carmen: Mm-hmm.

Ashley Janelle: hoping that will change at some point. and then we can kind of grow a little bit faster, but it is just me.

Carmen: Yeah, definitely for sure. And I can imagine that, you know, right now it is of course really exciting for you to just like handle all of the aspects and operational side. and you also mentioned just now that you've in the past you've hired some VAs. So could you tell us a little bit about where did you find those VAs? Where were they based? What were what were their roles? what were they doing?

Ashley Janelle: Yeah, really great question. So I've used a lot of the sites like like Upwork. there's also I think my last VA was based in the Philippines. And so they've done all really great work. for me it was more of like on an as needed basis. So as I needed, you know, I think my last VA was really helping me to build out my email funnel, my email journey. So that took a long time. and I just didn't have the bandwidth for it. So that was an area where a VA could step in. So in a lot of those areas where I'm like, I can't focus on this. Like if I focus on this, I'm not gonna be focusing on all these other things, which is most of the time as a social printer, that's where I have seeked out some VA help.

Carmen: Yeah, absolutely for sure. So like with those VAs, was it like a project base or was it something like a temporary contract that you need depending on the capacity and support that you needed?

Ashley Janelle: Yeah, I think my last VA, we were working together for about four months. So that was

Carmen: Mm-hmm.

Ashley Janelle: more than just the the email journey. That was getting me set up with some automated messages on my social media for when people would, you know, kind of DM and have questions, responding to comments on social media, things like that. Like anything that was too time consuming, I would train train the VA and then they would be able to kind of move, you know, move from there and actually, you know. do the things that I needed them to do with the understanding of how the business works and, you know, how I would answer a question. Yeah, absolutely.

Carmen: Yeah, which yeah. Yeah, for sure. And you mentioned that they were based in the Philippines. So I can imagine, you know, of course, there's of course the time difference and of course the asynchronous communication. can you share with the listeners out there a little bit about your experience working with offshore VA, offshore staffing?

Ashley Janelle: Yeah, absolutely. I think that it may not work for everybody. For me, it worked out just because of the nature of the work that my VA was doing. I didn't necessarily have to be there. She would log in at about 3 PM my time. And so when she had questions, a lot of times she would kind of throw them my way before I went to sleep. And that would have that was kind of enough time for us to, you know, for her to get the questions answered that she needed and for me to also, you know, get my information that I needed from her. The other thing that I also started doing was implementing I can't remember if it was like weekly or bi weekly, I know it was definitely weekly meetings. So there would be things that we would we would have a time to actually meet for, you know, 15, 30 minutes, whatever it was. And then that would give us a lot of structure because we didn't have that FaceTime or, you know, we weren't in the same time zone. So kind of ways to make it easier. A lot of times I really want to make it easier on the people that I'm working with because if I'm making it easier on them, then I have more more comfort that things are actually gonna get done in the right way. And so making accessible, making sure that we kind of on board in a good way was was really important.

Carmen: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's also I think oftentimes the onboarding aspect is is really overlooked as well. especially like when you're hiring somebody remotely across a different time zone. and something that I've learned is that usually like the mo first two to three weeks are like the most crucial aspect when hiring a VA, right? Because like once you get them trained, they're up and running and they're able to do everything that you require in your sleep and everything like that as well. For sure. so you mentioned that when it comes to offshore staffing, that it's not for everybody and you know, it works well for some people and it's not necessarily the right one size fits approach

Ashley Janelle: Mm-hmm.

Carmen: to everyone else. why do you think that is what or maybe I'll rephrase that question. What do you think the challenges are when it comes to offshore staffing, working with VAEs in general?

Ashley Janelle: I think the biggest thing is the time zone difference. So I think one of the things that you want to think about is what

Carmen: Mm.

Ashley Janelle: tag am I looking for this person to help me with? And even if you're hiring an offshore employee, like how often do I need to be interfacing with them? Is it crucial that throughout the day we're able to, you know, slack back and forth or we can jump on a quick call? And if that's the case, then you probably want someone that is within your same time zone or has your same working hours. So I would say that's the first thing. Like it worked for me because I didn't need to be right there all the time. And the time that I was online and they were online at the same time was good enough. But really making sure that, you know, how much time do I need to work with you? You know, is it going to take me a really long time to onboard you once you are onboarded? You know, are we working together? and if that's the case, then maybe it's not the right fit.

Carmen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, makes sense as well. At the end of the day, ultimately comes down to setting the expectations. What is it that you're trying to achieve? Also the communication piece and navigating the time zones as well to be able to make sure that you're aligned in terms of what you're working towards as well. All right. So let's look at it in the present day right now. You know, you said that right now you are you know, you are basically wearing multiple hats, right? working at Empathy. What would you say is currently taking most of your time?

Ashley Janelle: That's a really great question. So, one of the things I didn't mention is that I'm equally a content creator. So I also create content. So my brain is always split into two different directions. Some, you know, some of the time is 60-40, some of the time is 50-50. It may not ever really be 50-50. I think it just depends on what I have going on. but on the content creation side, I would say always filming and editing is taking a lot of time.

Carmen: absolutely. Recording and all of that, a lot of takes. Yeah, yeah.

Ashley Janelle: Yes, absolutely. and planning the content. And then I would say on the empathive side, I would say what probably takes the most time is probably working one-on-one with students because I do work one on one with some of our students. so making sure that, you know, that time is is given to them is probably takes the most time, but it really doesn't take too much time. The good thing about empathive is that it kind of runs on its own. I kind of check in with my students as needed as they kind of check in with me. so it's for me on that side it's a lot less of like hand holding the business itself. The business is like doing what the business needs to do. It's more so the interfacing with my students takes

Carmen: We of course.

Ashley Janelle: the most time. And that really doesn't take that much time.

Carmen: Mm-hmm. So how many students do you actually have at the moment?

Ashley Janelle: At the moment I have seven and so again that is more so because we're one on one boot camp. So we don't do cohorts, we do kind of like as we have coaches, and then as I I'll step in as well. So as I have the bandwidth to take on a student for sixteen weeks or two.

Carmen: Yeah, of course. It makes sense as well, especially like if you are customizing it for every single student. You want to be able to have the dedication, the time, the capacity as well to ensure that they are heading in the right path that they want to achieve as well. Yeah, yeah,

Ashley Janelle: Yes, absolutely.

Carmen: for sure. So Ashley, tell us a little bit about You mentioned that you know you have on the other side, outside of Empathive, you are also a content creator. What is the content that you're really focusing on?

Ashley Janelle: So the content I'm focused on is tech content. So I do a lot of tech reviews, a lot of wearable tech reviews. I talk a lot about artificial intelligence. I also do daily lives every day at 4 p.m. Central one Monday through Friday. And so on the lives, I spend my time talking about the day of stories, like anything from you know, the latest AI news, the latest AI company to IPO, what going on in corporate because there's a lot of conversation right now around layoffs and just corporate in general and what are the all of these companies doing. So I spent a lot of time in that space for an hour, kind of talking to my audience about what's going on and all of the kind of hot topics that are hitting. so as a content creator, I'm really focused on I'm really focused on this idea of being a responsible influencer. It's something that has kind of Been weighing on me a lot. Just kind of when you take a look at the landscape of what it means to have influence today. Really want to make sure that within my space, I am building a community that really trusts what it is that I'm saying, that comes to get educated, that comes to leave with more information than they had when they came in. And that we're I'm actually. Delivering on something that matters as a content creator that I feel that matters.

Carmen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, at the end of the day, it's really about building something or creating something that really resonates with your heart that you truly believe in as well, and that you can, of course, give back to the community so that they can take something from it, be inspired, learn something from it. And there there's a lot of power as well, right? When you create content, become an influencer and when creating it in the right way, you're really able to build a community or even build like a movement to be able to bring the revolution or the changes, especially when it's about tech and so on.

Ashley Janelle: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I spent a lot of time talking about AI and the environment, AI and safety, AI and you know, data centers and

Carmen: Yeah.

Ashley Janelle: you know, just trying to educate people on what AI actually is and the fact that it's not new and how we exist with it because it's not going anywhere. Also trying to demystify a lot of AI because there's a lot of pushback and rightfully so. And so As someone who is a creator and is talking to my audience about the tools that I'm using, I also have is equal of a responsibility to talk about the implications that come with that. That may not necessarily be good. But we need to make sure that we're having a well-rounded conversation about this technology that is moving so fast. And so it's just every day I just hope that there's a takeaway that someone, you know, whether they're enlightened, maybe they're encouraged to use the tool. or the the technology. or maybe they learned something about regulations that they didn't know, you know, when they when they joined. I just think that there's a there's a lot to talk about in this space that's moving so quickly and so I've tried I've kinda taken that on to, you know, do that myself every day.

Carmen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And of course, coming down to normalizing these conversations, right? And also looking at both the the positive and also the negative implications in the world of AI too. Great. Ashley, so just like a one final question that I always love to ask to every single one of my guests coming into this podcast. if there was one advice that you would share to someone thinking of starting a business, what would it be?

Ashley Janelle: Mm-hmm the advice would be to just start, to not wait until it's perfect. like I said, I started just by offering free mentorship and I knew eventually I wanted to build a course, but oftentimes the idea that we have is very large and the how we're gonna get there feels very daunting. And so really trying to figure out where you can just start, where can you just begin, what can you do in the meantime to just offer someone some value. I think that's where you start. Like don't think about big picture. Think about where can you start right now. Really start small, very lightweight, and just think about the value, the value, the value, the value that you're trying to bring to some.

Carmen: Sure. Actually, I do have a follow-up question from that, so it's like a follow-up final question. What does a good mentorship mean to you?

Ashley Janelle: Mm. good mentorship for me is trust. I think it's trust on both sides. but yeah, trust I would say being able to be someone on the mentor side that people feel comfortable asking questions because people are learning and people do feel intimidated by just their questions. They don't know, you know, they may feel it's a basic question or or not. It doesn't matter, it's a good question. So I would say I would say trust. Trust is probably one of the biggest things that any mentor or anyone that's looking to get into mentorship should have. And then also patience, patience as well, patience with you know, with all aspects that come with mentorship. Now that is mentorship in the paid sense, in the way that my course works, but also mentorship does not always have to be paid. You can seek out a mentor and In that front, I would always say if you are seeking out a mentor, look, try to think about what you can offer them. And a lot of times people don't think about that because they're just looking for what they want to get out of it. And they don't necessarily always think that they can offer something, but there's always something that you can offer someone else. You might be Gen Z or you might be a millennial looking for an older mentor. you can offer them the perspective of someone who is in your shoes. So that's just kind of one example and how that might work for them or how they could get some value out of that. So it should never a mentorship should never just be one sided.

Carmen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. It always goes both ways because we we come from really diverse background with diverse experiences. So there's always something that we can benefit or learn from one another as well. Great, Ashley. Well, thank you so much for coming on to our podcast. This is Behind the Founders. Be sure to stay tuned for the next episode. Thanks again.

Ashley Janelle: Thank you.